Ebay turbo kit, midnight madness

Discussion on fuel delivery & intake/exhaust tech & mods.
Hendo
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Ebay turbo kit, midnight madness

Post by Hendo »

Ok this is just fantasy land for me at this point due to my current level of expertise, lack of shop space, lifts, elaborate tools, welder ect... I am going to open this can of worms anyway. I found this http://www.ebay.com/itm/T4-GT45-V-BAND- ... 3f293a929a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; .

The L77 is equipped with a high flow oil pump, 60lb injectors and a high flow (ZL1?) fuel pump stock correct? The stock bottom end should stand up to 8-9psi (the supercharged guys are all doing it)right? I would have to fab up the exhaust side, might have to get turbo manifolds (maybe these http://www.ebay.com/itm/LS1-LS6-LSX-Up- ... 40&vxp=mtr" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), fabricate crossover piping and flanges. I would run straight pipes after the turbo for the best possible efficiency, delete the cats for efficency/space and PCV system because of blow by. The oil vapors from PCV dilute the octane quality of the 93 pump gas from what I have heard and add a variable that could prevent accurate tuning or even cause damage. These LS engines have knock sensors right?
I would be doing well to delete the AFM, swap to all LS7 lifters, use stiffer/double valve springs, use stronger (LS9 or Cometic for example) head gaskets and ARP head studs while I am in there. I am wondering if the LS9 cam would be the ticket since it was designed for forced induction? Would a used LS2 or LS3 cam be ok or would specialized F/I cam be a better choice? Would the 225/230 Texas Speed cam I wanted to swap in already for an initial n/a build I was planning(viewtopic.php?f=2&t=531" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; bottom of page 1 Texas Speed shopping list) be all wrong?
I know Ebay turbos aren't legendary for reliability but the kit is 1/11th(!!!) the cost of a Magnacharger(and most S/C kits in general) and should in theory make more power and be more fuel efficient. S/Cs are belt driven and have a fairly high parasitic loss correct? I realize that there may be some lag. I would be ok with that since the IRS and tranny probably don't appreciate the shock of instant huge power like a roots supercharger throws at them. It would probably be easier to hook up the extra power in a drag race as well. It should be possible to accomplish all the tuning with an HP tuning "professional" MVPI interface system that can monitor A/F ratios right? Would it be smart money to run an oil cooler radiator on oil lines for the turbo if I wanted to keep things cooler, not have "coke up" and extend the turbo's life? Is it ideal to run the cooler before or after the turbo? What about the deeper/higher capacity Camaro trans pan and improved oil pickup, worthwhile? Lower T-stat would be smart money as well as tuning the electric fans to come on at lower temps right? What else am I forgetting? Is there anything else that might prevent a motivated individual from doing this? I have a feeling a person could do it for $3,000-$4,500 themselves, make over 600hp on 8-9psi and only loose a couple MPG on the highway if stock gears and converter were used. I wouldn't hack the car up when I did it, I would take my time and do a good job since I have a lot more time than money(hence the attraction here) and we have another vehicle at our disposal or could rent in a pinch until the job is done. I want to go fast, want to learn by doing and I don't want to spend a fortune. The tenataive plan is between 500-550rwhp with as little boost as I can get away with in order to keep the thing street-able.
This Caprice PPV seems to be factory equipped with a lot of goodies that make this sort of modification seem like GM planned it all along. Even removal of the government mandated pollution and fuel economy red tape parts(cam,AFM) gives the opportunity to strengthen things that you would want to do anyway. I have a feeling in the future when these things hit the surplus block there will be a cult of people who put turbo systems on them and I have a feeling the prices will never be as low as what Crown Vics and Chargers sell for.

Somebody pipe up with some ideas, show me better kits, make fun of me, or at least talk some sense into me :lol:

Lee Henderson
2013 Caprice PPV 9C1 6L Alto Grey 2,000 miles currently on the clock.
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Tom Slick
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Re: Ebay turbo kit, midnight madness

Post by Tom Slick »

For the Caprice, a twin turbo setup would probably fit better... I have two turbos that were on a Dodge 5.9L... Turbonetics T3 Super 60's...

The fabrication of the piping is the fun part... routing everything... You might look at the Austrailian turbo kits... they have made them for the Holden V8's for a while now... be wary of any Ebay "Kit", especially universal ones...

As far as the fuel system, tuning, etc. It is very similar to the superchargers, but the maps are a little different, because of how/when the boost comes in with turbos vs. superchargers...

Superchargers are definitely easier, and a little cheaper than turbos... though, turbos (properly matched) will produce more power at the same boost pressure than any supercharger.

If you are genuinely serious about putting turbos on your car, I can help...

Later,
Tom Slick
1932 Glassic Ford Model A Roadster Replica - Ford 302/C4, approx. 1400lb... :-)
2015 GMC Sierra SLE Extended Cab - 5.3L
Gerome
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Re: Ebay turbo kit, midnight madness

Post by Gerome »

The guys at sloppy mechanics do turbos on chevy motors sll the time and put in less work than what you are talking about doing . They love to push the boundaries or limits on these motors 4.8-6.0 . Even have a forum for the like minded . I don't know much about this subject but will look on with interest .
Hendo
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Re: Ebay turbo kit, midnight madness

Post by Hendo »

I have read both of your posts and I have been checking out a Hot Rod article http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engi ... ation.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Doing a lot of head slapping now that I have figured out that if I do a single I would at least need a T77 turbo that can support 800hp not the T45 that maxes at a claimed 600hp or else I am making the engine blow through a coffee stirrer instead of a normal straw(bad analogies are on the way). I am going to keep reading and doing research before I show more ignorance. I sincerely appreciate your responses and willingness to lend an ear. I am going to make sure my next posts are more thought out and come up with real plans, both bare bones and full house. Bare bones to whet my appetite and then the full build as a permanent solution. Reference material and all suggestions are always welcome and thank you both again. I am not dropping this chew toy yet just going to play with it a while and do my homework before I start playing fetch. :lol:
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Tom Slick
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Re: Ebay turbo kit, midnight madness

Post by Tom Slick »

Bigger isn't always better... a larger turbo for a specific engine can take a little more time to spool up.

Check out the book Maximum Boost, written by Corky Bell... it will give you some insight to turbos, even if it is an older book...

Just remember that there is more than one way to skin a cat, and speed is a matter of money... How fast do you want to go? :-)

My personal experience with turbos includes building a twin turbo setup for Dodge Dakotas, Rams, Durangos, etc. We were the first to do it... and you could still service the engine without having to remove anything to do it!
2386_611141036540_4547_n.jpg
2386_611141036540_4547_n.jpg (76.69 KiB) Viewed 36725 times
We also did several supercharger installs... Paxton, Powerdyne, Kenne Bell, Vortech, and ATI.

Later,
Tom Slick
1932 Glassic Ford Model A Roadster Replica - Ford 302/C4, approx. 1400lb... :-)
2015 GMC Sierra SLE Extended Cab - 5.3L
Hendo
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Re: Ebay turbo kit, midnight madness

Post by Hendo »

Ok I have a deal already agreed upon with Novaduce for a brand new Holset HX40W that is for a Cummins turbo diesel. I took a day or two to sleep on it and do some homework. I am pulling the trigger. I am going to mount it rear from the muffler hangers. Going to remove factory exhaust piping after the cross box, Y pipe into single pipe, weld on turbo flange and run single exhaust pipe from turbo out. The turbo has built in WG and I am sure it is set to very high pressure and not adjustable. I will have to figure out best way to defeat, remove or delete it. I was wondering if I could just run an independent adjustable WG on piping after it to relieve excess pressure and get my 5-11? psi max that is safe for the engine(10-11psi maybe if E85 used) it doesn't seem to be something that people do couldn't find reference on Google the ways I tried to word question. I will use adjustable WG, BOV and intercooler. Most popular oil return pump for rear mounts on Ebay is $135. I want to do rear mount to avoid cutting up engine bay, reduce charge temps, keep under hood temps down and be able to put back stock with little or no trace if needed. It isn't that big of a turbo, it has twin scroll, the L77 is pretty big and I want boost to build gradually for transmission and axle longevity. So the remote seems like it will spool at a decent clip in spite of the pipe length but not too violently. The turbo should be able to feed the 6L well beyond the 400-550rwhp that I am looking at from the 270-300rwhp these do stock. To save money I might use salvaged exhaust pipe for hot side. I will need clean/new pipe for cold side to keep soot or nastyness out of engine. Need confirmation of stock fueling system capacity being adequate as reported 60lb injectors and ZL1 fuel pump suggest. Will it matter if stock cats, pup cats and cross box are still intact or should I get cat delete pipes and fab X pipe in place of other restrictions for best efficiency or to avoid problems? I want to just vent PCV into atmosphere with small filters. Tune it with HP pro system. I have a few life lines I can use to get on track with tuning. May have to call Mike Finnegan if my Army buddy with turbo experience can't help or anyone else I can contact first... I don't want to abuse Mike Finnegan phone privileges. Sent him message on Facebook sharing intent of project, maybe he will point me to a trusted friend if he simply doesn't have time to mentor me. I need to keep learning more here and will study until I know I am ready, failure is not an option :twisted:
Last edited by Hendo on Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tom Slick
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Re: Ebay turbo kit, midnight madness

Post by Tom Slick »

I have two T3 Super 60's for sale... you could keep the dual exhaust...

Later,
Tom Slick
1932 Glassic Ford Model A Roadster Replica - Ford 302/C4, approx. 1400lb... :-)
2015 GMC Sierra SLE Extended Cab - 5.3L
Hendo
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Re: Ebay turbo kit, midnight madness

Post by Hendo »

Tom Slick, The deal involves a trade not money, garage time, welding favors, use of tools/equipment I don't have are also huge bonuses. Can't back out now or my reputation would be ruined with those guys, I said I would do it and I was taught to keep my word. I have a feeling I was lucky to get him to come off this one. They are being so hospitable because he wants to know how system would work on their vehicles, a learning experience for all, I am the guinea pig. I do appreciate the offer and under different circumstances I would take it. We used to live in Richardson, TX and I would be your new best friend if we still did...might still move back to Texas. We aren't fans of GA's taxes, land prices or road systems. Does it sound like I am getting closer to being on the right track with the latest plans? I may still want to contact you with questions once I get closer to the event. If you would tolerate them. THX
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novadeuce
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Re: Ebay turbo kit, midnight madness

Post by novadeuce »

Lee,

The option given by Tom might be something to consider. By no means does this trade have to take place. This was just thrown out there. This is certainly an area where knowledge and expertise is extremely valuable. Please take your time and find out the best path to take. I know nothing about turbo set ups and dont even know what I have or if it is even compatable with our engines with out spending a bunch of money. Your call on the trade though.

Scott
Scott Walker
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Tom Slick
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Re: Ebay turbo kit, midnight madness

Post by Tom Slick »

That Turbo will work, but running a rear mount like the STS turbo systems isn't the most efficient way of doing it...

You want to utilize as much heat/pressure as you can... The exhaust piping to the back allows the exhaust gas to cool some...

Looking at it from a Thermodynamics standpoint, for a given volume (Volume will not change), as temperature decreases pressure will decrease. This means you will need more exhaust gas to get the turbo moving with a rear mount as compared to a front mount.

Bottom line, do your research before jumping into something that might cost you a lot more later on... If you don't have the money to do it right, you should wait...

My T3 turbos were specifically designed for a streetable 5.9L with high flow heads, to bring boost in at around 1800rpm, with peak efficiency at around 5000rpm... were the engine is utilized the most on the street... they would be pretty well suited for our 6L motors... I would turbocharge my Caprice, but don't because of the following reasons: My Caprice is still under warranty, it is also my daily driver, I have two "toys" already, and I'm saving up for an engagement ring...

Running with the single turbo, you could mount it up front, where the airbox is... you would have to swap the exhaust manifolds around, so they face foreward, if they will fit... then run a single exhaust back.

As for boost control, you can get an electronic boost controller... you should be able to get a different wastegate actuator that will give you the boost you want... I recommend one that opens at 5psi, then get a controller to allow more boost. I happen to have one...

I think I'm going to list my turbo setup for sale on here...

Later,
Tom Slick
1932 Glassic Ford Model A Roadster Replica - Ford 302/C4, approx. 1400lb... :-)
2015 GMC Sierra SLE Extended Cab - 5.3L
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