1LE Camaro rear control arms

Suspension, brake, and hydraulic/electric steering discussion.
Navy Lifer
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Re: 1LE Camaro rear control arms

Post by Navy Lifer »

bump for photos
xcidmigs
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Re: 1LE Camaro rear control arms

Post by xcidmigs »

Interesting bit of engineering there, would seem like a ton of work/time involved. Are you going to be selling these modified arms? would seem like you could if the cost is similar to the actual replacement PPV arms and lower than other aftermarket like BMR etc.

What are those silver inserts made of aluminum? to switch them out with the rest of the suspension assembled seems like it might be tricky to me but would it leave the alignment the same I can't quite wrap my head around the geometry of that this morning.

I'm taking my car in for alignment tomorrow we will see what they have to say about any of my changes.
CrashTestDummy
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Re: 1LE Camaro rear control arms

Post by CrashTestDummy »

Simple, clean way to get a 1/2" drop in the rear. Nice bit of engineering, there, Bill!

Another question; what's the reason to use the 1LE LCA? Is it made of thicker material? Is it for that less-compliant inner bushing? Both? Thanks.
Gene Beaird,
Pearland, Texas
2012 Caprice 9C1
1992 B4C 1LE Camaro
2018 Tahoe PPV (her car)
1995 DGGM Impala SS
1985 Firebird - 310 LS1 C Prepared autocross car.
1980 Bluebird Wanderlodge
And some others
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Navy Lifer
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Re: 1LE Camaro rear control arms

Post by Navy Lifer »

xcidmigs wrote:Interesting bit of engineering there, would seem like a ton of work/time involved. Are you going to be selling these modified arms? would seem like you could if the cost is similar to the actual replacement PPV arms and lower than other aftermarket like BMR etc.

What are those silver inserts made of aluminum? to switch them out with the rest of the suspension assembled seems like it might be tricky to me but would it leave the alignment the same I can't quite wrap my head around the geometry of that this morning.

I'm taking my car in for alignment tomorrow we will see what they have to say about any of my changes.
I'll admit that making this modification available was something I had considered--the work is done to make it easy to build several sets, or to do a group buy--the more we make, the cheaper it gets. I think it can be done for less than the cost of just using 2015 SS sedan control arms, if someone wanted to use them for some reason (to run the 2015 sway bar)--and the production sedan arms wouldn't have the adjustable provision. The arms would not get powdercoated, since we now know the inner bushings in the Camaro 1LE arms will work on the sedan cradle. All I would do is rattle-can the disturbed area of each arm.

OE SS arms (2015) with wide sway bar link provision: (I can't explain price difference side to side)
Left - http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/chevrolet/ ... ontrol-arm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Right - http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/chevrolet/ ... ontrol-arm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sway bar to use with the 1LE control arms:
http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/chevrolet/ ... ilizer-bar" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
NOTES
- this bar is sedan-specific as it has a kick-out/dogleg between the cradle bushings to clear the spare tire tub. The sedan wide bar is 25mm, compared to Camaro 1LE which is 28mm but will not clear the spare tub. For comparison, the production PPV rear bar is 16mm (2011-2013), and 2014-up is (I think) 20mm. PPV bars still connect via the inner link bracket.
- the biggest reason to go to the wider bar configuration will be that the stock control arms, with the narrow mounting position for sway bar links, has proven to be a weak point over the years, especially with the G8's. Early PPV's didn't use a bar that is big enough to do much damage, but upgrading the sway bar (larger) could reveal the weakness in the original design--links fail or the arm link bracket separates. 2014 SS used a better link design for narrow mount (and a 28mm bar), and 2015 brought the current configuration.

The inserts (offset slugs) are steel--ideally they would be plated, but this was a prototype effort--haven't even fitted them to a car yet to see if there are issues. The one potential problem I see is that when the suspension is in full droop (extended), the lower spring seat on the shock body may contact the control arm--I consider it a minor issue, as I'm not even sure it will happen, or if it's necessary to do anything about it if it does occur.

The reason(s) I came up with this mod:
1. I'm not a fan of "lowering" springs, especially if they take away suspension travel. My plan is to use the SS springs, and with the adjustability now available at the rear, it will be possible to create a more "level" appearance, rather than the raked look these cars--including G8 & SS--display with stock springs. Moving the lower mount seemed doable, and it doesn't take away travel in the same way a shorter spring does.
2. Using the Camaro arm kit also allows me to upgrade the rear sway bar as mentioned above.

Let us know how the alignment changes things and whether there are any issues!
CrashTestDummy wrote:Simple, clean way to get a 1/2" drop in the rear. Nice bit of engineering, there, Bill!

Another question; what's the reason to use the 1LE LCA? Is it made of thicker material? Is it for that less-compliant inner bushing? Both? Thanks.
Gene, the Chevy Performance Parts arm kit is a mandatory backfit for 2010-2011 Camaros that did not have the ability to run the wider rear sway bar that is part of the 1LE package offered by CPP. Whether there's a bushing difference in the 1LE arms, I cannot say without doing some research. CPP decided that the arm kit was the best way to encourage early Camaro folks to do the full 1LE package, since it was only applicable to some vehicles.

The service replacement control arm is cheap for Camaro (compared to sedans)--same PN both sides:
http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/chevrolet/ ... tion=right" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The difference with the CPP kit is that it also includes new fasteners.
http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/camaro-per ... arent=1030" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The SS sedan went to the wider sway bar in 2015, at the same time it was fitted with Brembo rear calipers. One discussion suggests that the wider sway bar would only work if the Brembo setup is used--since Brembo's were standard on all 2010-2015 Camaro SS, it was a non-issue for the backfit of the 1LE parts, other than changing the control arms to provide the new sway bar link mounting points. This is yet to be confirmed.

The one thing I don't know yet if it could be an issue is that the ground clearance is going to be slightly reduced due to the "kickout" on the bottom of the LCA--and it will look different when viewed from the rear--whether or not it might be objectionable, I can't say. Maybe it will only be noticeable enough to make people curious WHY it's different!
CrashTestDummy
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Re: 1LE Camaro rear control arms

Post by CrashTestDummy »

Okay, so I could install this 1LE LCA and stick with the aftermarket sway bar I already have installed on my 2012? The little 'drop' looks like it might help drop the car a bit in the back, but that's comparing a picture of the 1LE arms in one listing you have with a drawing of the stock Camaro LCAs in the other link.

Interesting stuff!!
Gene Beaird,
Pearland, Texas
2012 Caprice 9C1
1992 B4C 1LE Camaro
2018 Tahoe PPV (her car)
1995 DGGM Impala SS
1985 Firebird - 310 LS1 C Prepared autocross car.
1980 Bluebird Wanderlodge
And some others
Do YOU have my SPID?
Navy Lifer
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Re: 1LE Camaro rear control arms

Post by Navy Lifer »

Gene...who are you addressing? I'll respond...

The 1LE control arms by themselves will not lower the car--in fact (I forgot to mention this), the Camaro control arms actually appear to have the lower shock mounting hole slightly higher on the arm than the sedan control arms, which could explain why xc didn't see the rear drop that might have been expected with the SS springs (based on the photo of his car).

Not trying to promote my version of the control arms, but IF the plan is to lower the car, whether by this method or with aftermarket springs, just remember that the 1LE control arms were not based on sedan dimensions (lower shock hole position).

The 1LE control arms DO have a more rugged "standard" (narrow) sway bar bracket design (look at the first picture in this thread to compare), and it may call for using the appropriate/compatible sway bar link that comes from the bar supplier (BMR in your case).

I got the idea for my arm mod here (sorry, it's a competing brand):
http://www.spohn.net/shop/Pontiac-G8/Su ... ac-G8.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"....control arms feature two (2) rear shock mounting locations. This allows you to maintain stock ride height or lower your rear ride height by 1.25" by simply changing the shock's lower mounting location on the control arm. These cars are rear end high from the factory, by giving you this choice you can lower your rear ride height by 1.25" without having to purchase aftermarket adjustable coil-over shocks and/or springs and have no effect on shock travel. If used in conjunction with aftermarket lowering springs and/or adjustable coil overs you can achieve an additional 1.25" of lowering with no effect on shock travel."
xcidmigs
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Re: 1LE Camaro rear control arms

Post by xcidmigs »

My understanding the 1LE bushings are stiffer which is the main reason behind the use, the added bonus of the change in rear sway bar design and the fact that you can use either one is also good. holding both side by side I don't see any difference in material, weight etc. The cross strengthening is about the same also. I feel like if GM wanted to change something else for handling etc they would have and didn't so probably good enough for me. I do like Bills mod though and he still hasn't answered if he will sell them?
Navy Lifer
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Re: 1LE Camaro rear control arms

Post by Navy Lifer »

xcidmigs wrote:I feel like if GM wanted to change something else for handling etc they would have and didn't so probably good enough for me. I do like Bills mod though and he still hasn't answered if he will sell them?
Well....I did "sort of" respond:
Navy Lifer wrote:I'll admit that making this modification available was something I had considered--the work is done to make it easy to build several sets, or to do a group buy--the more we make, the cheaper it gets. I think it can be done for less than the cost of just using 2015 SS sedan control arms, if someone wanted to use them for some reason (to run the 2015 sway bar)--and the production sedan arms wouldn't have the adjustable provision. The arms would not get powdercoated, since we now know the inner bushings in the Camaro 1LE arms will work on the sedan cradle. All I would do is rattle-can the disturbed area of each arm.
As to the first part ("good enough for me") of your response, that's why the aftermarket exists, to sell what people want, or at least create the sense that OE parts are not up to the task.

While I'm not reluctant to make more of the modified 1LE control arms, the shop I work with is very small, and I'm not one of their bread & butter customers--they'd starve to death if it was a matter of how much I bring in the door--so anyone wanting them would have to understand that there will be a little time involved. The more we can build at once, the better it will be, for cost and for having any priority in their work schedule, and I'm not going to undertake that without some idea of who may be interested.

It would probably be a one-time run, let's say up to 10 sets, and the individuals that want them would need to pay me up-front for their GM kit (I can buy them locally at very good price), and with a 50% deposit on the mod cost all paid before production starts. I'll have to check on the price to produce 10 sets, but it's probably going to be in the $140 - $180 range for a modified pair, hopefully with that including shipping to each buyer, making it about a $250 max deal. I won't be trying to make anything on this--consider it a contribution to the further development of the vehicle. That number is a SWAG, and if it's more (or less), I'll let everyone know when the idea advances to a commitment.

Anyone (else) interested?
Pursuit
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Re: 1LE Camaro rear control arms

Post by Pursuit »

Bill,
I would be interested.

Maurice
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2011 Caprice Phantom Black 9C3
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