2013 9C3 - Black - NW Indiana

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Welcome new members, please make your first post in this section. Say hello & tell us a little bit about you and your car. We're happy to see you here!
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GammaFlat
Posts: 259
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:26 am
Location: NW Indiana

2013 9C3 - Black - NW Indiana

Post by GammaFlat »

Hi all,

Just got a '13 9C3. What a hoot. Very nice ride and very snappy. I'm enamored with the LS engine. I have an iron 5.3 LS in the garage that was intended to be an LS-Swap. After running the numbers (again and again), I determined I could get an aluminum 6.0 already in a darn good car for less than the swap would have costed and I won't end up with a frankenmobile. So, here I am. Dang, are these nice cars.

Current state:
  • Solo Axle back
  • Camaro 19" wheels/tires - may wind up selling and going back original :? Anyone want 1 month old Camaro tires on Camaro rims?
Future state:
  • Cam - maybe LS9 cam - have one on hand - maybe too much LSA. goals are to eliminate lifter failures related to DOD before it's too late :o, not destroy gas mileage, improve performance (more lift and duration would be nice - decent idle nice too, so not too much overlap) but like most things in life, it's complicated - have to determine if I'm keeping the heads stock before I pick a cam. Near where the heads stop flowing in lift, I'll shore up to that spot or back up a little lift-wise. Kinda Stage I I think.
  • Heads. Hmm. need help here but flow graph of incremental lift graph is critical in determining what cam I want to run. Don't want to spin too too much. The balancing act/battle will be duration and overlap (RPMs) vs. somewhat behaving as a daily driver. Could go any of three ways: stock, ported or off the shelf upgrade
  • Electronics! Need stereo to do more than just look at me. I understand I need to make a deal with (Walter :lol: ) White (whiteautoandmedia.com). He'll be my guy for the head unit and BCM. How do I get this stuff apart? Is there a "how to" on removing the BCM and head unit? I'll need some cables as well Mr. Walker
  • Fix the console. PW button array is "popped" downward - need console apart to assess/repair
I've been to White's site and read that: "Bluetooth for Phone With Phonebook Download and Voice Command/Siri Access" - does that mean it will make and receive calls with my Android phone? Does the BCM upgrade make the dome light turn on when the door opens?

I think I've rambled plenty. I'm so glad there's a site with so much great info. Thank you!

John
Current: 2013 9C3, deeper trans pan, 12VoltSolutions Remote, Class III hitch, Android Auto capable radio
smwalker
Administration Staff
Posts: 2201
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:44 am
Location: Azusa,CA

Re: 2013 9C3 - Black - NW Indiana

Post by smwalker »

A 13 9C3~~ Very rare.

Welcome!!

BCM reprogramming will turn enable the lights to come on with your doors. Assuming you have already tried the "Doors open ' button in the overhead console??
Steve Walker
Azusa, CA
'11 PPV 9C3 Huron White
indianajoe
Posts: 168
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:12 pm
Location: South Bend, IN

Re: 2013 9C3 - Black - NW Indiana

Post by indianajoe »

the silverbox removal isnt too bad, just have to be really careful with the tabs on trim pieces (the white clips are stronger than the parts in most cases)
i've had mine out a couple times and i thought there was a guide somewhere on here.
IM28702
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:20 am

Re: 2013 9C3 - Black - NW Indiana

Post by IM28702 »

Welcome...

My 2 cents on the heads... They're LS3 heads. Unless you're really planning on building the snot out of the engine, maybe turbos or a supercharger... The money is better spent elsewhere. Those are fantastic heads as-is. The money that would be spent porting the heads could go to a 3.27 or 3.45 Camaro rear end, brakes, interior bits, or just basic refreshing of the whole car. My Cam choice would be a non-factory-GM cam as they always have so so so much LSA in them to make a smooth idle, but then you sacrifice low to mid end some. I'd talk to Brian Tooley or Texas Speed, or Comp, or Flowtech Induction, and tell them what your plans are and how you want the car to behave, and they'll be able to pick a perfect cam for your setup.
GammaFlat
Posts: 259
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:26 am
Location: NW Indiana

Re: 2013 9C3 - Black - NW Indiana

Post by GammaFlat »

I agree with you about 90%. The thing nagging me about the heads is that they flatten out at .500 lift. In other words, after .500, the flow numbers flatten (and descend) whereas ported or aftermarket heads continue to rise through .600 lift. I was thinking .550 to .560 lift would be nice but not practical with these heads. Go here to see and hear a phenomenal explanation of why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPAeepqrY-0&t=1s .

Essentially you have more parasitic drag with increased lift, so you better be getting significantly (or at least some) increased flow with your increased lift. If our factory heads stop increasing flow at .500 (and thereafter), it makes NO sense to have a cam that goes beyond 500 lift - you literally lose horsepower (see flow numbers below). I used to always think that you nearly always got more flow with more lift - it turns out no... and it's worse than that, flow starts going backward (decreasing).

A second problem with these heads is the exhaust restriction. Since the exhaust divided by the intake is less than 75% across the board (at a given lift), this supports your argument that the cam should probably be after-market - likely dual profile (exhaust profile needs to be "larger" than intake). If any of this doesn't make sense, please enjoy the video. That guy does a great job of 'splaining.

In the end, you're right about the after-market cam. But... The heads are coming off regardless...so does it make sense to send them off to extend increased flow beyond .500? :twisted: When I "test" my car, I'm flabbergasted by it's grunt. At what horsepower should we start worrying about breaking stuff? These are good problems to have.

L77 Heads (flow numbers):
Lift Int. Ex. Ex/In
0.1 81 55 0.679
0.2 152 118 0.776
0.3 222 155 0.698
0.4 262 186 0.710
0.5 295 198 0.671
0.6 300 204 0.680
0.7 291 207 0.711
Current: 2013 9C3, deeper trans pan, 12VoltSolutions Remote, Class III hitch, Android Auto capable radio
IM28702
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:20 am

Re: 2013 9C3 - Black - NW Indiana

Post by IM28702 »

Totally agree, I'm right there with ya. I guess my stand is mostly financial. And it should be noted I'm notoriously a cheap ass...

I like to chase the major gains first, and then attack the minutia later. So... Let's just say that it's $1,000 to port a set of heads, shipping etc... To me, that $1,000 is better spent elsewhere, you'll see a bigger change by investing that money somewhere else like a rear end or whatever. I know so many guys that have spent so much money chasing so little gain when they reach that final 10%.

Just the fact that you can quote airflow vs lift numbers and understand the relationship means you know more than most guys out there. So many guys run a cam that is WAAAAYYYY too big for their engine because it makes a cool dyno number. I see LS1's with 255 duration and 650 lift with a 118 LSA and it's because they're chasing numbers, not drivability.

But, carry on good man. If the extra cost to port the heads doesn't derail something else in your project, by all means go for it. And post pictures so we can drool. :D

As far as how much power we can run and not break things... I think tires is the biggest determining factor there. If you have big, tall, sticky tires... Stuff gonna break. With most reasonable street tires, I feel most of the components are up to the task until you're about doubling the power numbers. As a side note, if you wanna watch pieces and parts on a PPV die from abuse, follow Fasterproms on youtube. Their "Uncle Sam" project... Jeremy repeatedly destroys every damn thing on that car. I watch those and I'm like "Ya, well I know not to do THAT"...
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